What’s the catch? Only on a specific price of hardware? Or is this an improvement on any hardware?
ITT: people upset claiming Torvalds is political getting all political on a post about kernel improvements.
I’m OOTL. Why are people upset with Torvalds?
He followed legal advice from lawyers and removed some russians from being kernel maintainers.
He went beyond that. “As a Finn, do you really expect me to up in arms to support the Russians…”
Bravo, slow-clap.
I mean, do you? This is a violation by Russia of another sovereign state. Thus, everyone in Russia is affected by the consequences of that action.
The Russian kernel coders, no matter their innocence, are subjects of a nation that can compel them to misbehave.
Now, if they were leaving Russia and defecting, that’s another matter, where they are pulling their individual sovereignty away from the Russian state.
Sanctions like this don’t work to affect change, it’s cruelty for the sake of cruelty with no other plausible purpose. Citizens have practically no control of their government in any nuclear state, blaming them and punishing them for something wholly unrelated to them based on their country of origin or residence is literally in the definition of hate speech, and literally is a fascist activity.
It’s like being mean to customer service people of a bad company. it does effect the bottom line, because of high turnover as a result of a toxic workplace, but it mostly hurts the lowest paid people. Unfortunately, it’s one of few available levers when MAD is a factor.
Just to circle back to this now that I’m more sober,
It’s like being mean to customer service people of a bad company.
If you do this you should unironically be put in jail and stopped from having any form of communication device for the rest of your life. I can’t overstate how fucking pathetic and psychopathic this thought is.
I have no problems with the action, and I have no problems with his attitude.
The effort to isolate Russia is an acceptable result of the Russian violent invasion. Russian citizens are not to blame for their nation’s behaviour, but they do share responsibility.
Removing contributes from the maintainers list is not an extreme action, but it is important as a statement.
As for not feeling the need to defend the Russian citizens, it is nearly righteous for people from nation’s that have been bullied by their neighbours.
People are more mad about how he did it rather than just the action he took. If he just explained why without being a prick nobody would care.
There will always be something to pick at, and with the number of trolls on here to inflame and manipulate any legitimate concerns, i highly suspect the troll farms and related pawns would find something to bitch about.
The fact is, not everyone has the EQ to state the issue perfectly clearly in terms everyone can accept.
“No, do you really expect me to look past what Russia is doing? Absolutely fucking no,” is basically reasonable.
So you’re fine with other oss projects kicking out Americans for their multiple genocided, right?
“Without being a prick” Dawg being a prick is his primary way of communication, power to him
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No, I also found the way he handled it really distasteful. Even before his response, just generally the way the whole thing was attempted under a veil wasn’t great. The actions taken should have been transparent from the start.
I do agree that it shouldn’t be polluting this thread like this though.
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What is the point of this comment? Linus was childish as hell in the email chain and started a bunch of drama for literally no reason. I’m not mad as much as I am embarrassed to be a part of the Linux community when things like this happen.
We have to face is Linus might be good intentionned but his years on the internet have made him an remorseless abrasive juvenile dickhead. I wish he’d lampshade it because most of the tine he comes off as just a nasty arogant goblin. It’s clear he feels permitted for his accomplishment and hard work to take his frustrations on others and it’s clear he knows it’s really not fucking helping but it seems he simply can’t help himself. Like being nice is a sign of weakness.
He’s practically always been like this. If anything he’s notably softened with age.
Only those with ties to Russian Government? like govt jobs etc? or all?
There are points of power (like code run all over the world) that are desirable targets for malicious actors.
So, those who are subject to a malicious foreign power, whether they are innocent or not, because they are subject to a power that is not innocent.
We don’t need to attack those people, but we need to deny the Russian state the capacity to affect those points of power where we can. They claim Russian citizenry, and so they are impacted by Russia’s choices, and the international responses to Russia’s actions.
Yes, only those with ties to the war, e.g. people who work for companies that develop software used on Russian drones.
But people are angry that this wasn’t explained from the beginning.
It’s companies that under sanctions, it’s not only drones, its banks that finance the war, and companies that are trying to censor the internet and destroy the privacy, that sort of things.
Yes, the drones was just an example, hence the “example given” before it.
I understand why people were mad it wasn’t made clear in the beginning. if it’s just people with ties to the war then it’s a good thing they did.
How would you even know what ties a person has when the problem is government level security. Besides, Russia doesn’t exactly work on government payrolls anyway, it’s more about working in subsidiary companies owned by the oligarchs who are able to skirt the law effectively becoming the government in the process. It’s totally foreign to Western style government, there is nothing like it in the world
It’s very simple. The US government maintains a list of sanctioned entities and companies. US citizens and businesses are not allowed to do business with these entities. Most of the removed maintainers either used their company email, or very publicly are employees of these sanctioned companies.
There’s no investigation of connections or anything complicated going on here.
Also, if you think corporations becoming effective government is some Russia specific thing, I have a bridge to sell you.
He took the authorization for a bunch of Russians from being able to keep working on the Linux stuff. I’m def not remembering everything and I’d suggest you searching any news about it, it’s an interesting read
From being able to work on Linux stuff without having their contributions reviewed by someone else.
It’s an important distinction many seem to miss.
Someone just removed many lifetimes of CO2 emissions with a couple of lines of code.
Shame that usage will just expand to fill the gap. Thanks late stage capitalism. Degrowth.
I misread you as saying “Thanks late stage filesystem.” 🤣
Well, that says more about you, who broke your btrfs?
Seriously tho, it’s fine, why would you even tell me ?
Exactly, this is known as the Jevons paradox
Thanks, got a new term today.
Wasn’t expecting this under a random unrelated post. A very welcome comment nonetheless.
Never forget that the exponential boom of renewable energy tech the last 20 years has entirely served as additional energy, not as replacement of fossil fuels.
Source?
In the EU at least this is demonstrably false. LNG has slightly risen since 2000 but other fossil fuels (namely coal) have gone way down. Total consumption has been steadily declining in the past few years and is down to 2004 levels. So overall our electricity is a whole shitload cleaner.
The story is even starker for domestic heating. Gas and coal are vanishing since the mid-2000s.
Why would you assume I am talking about Europe which accounts for 1/10 of the global energy consumption and why would I be talking the continent that has mostly outsourced its heavy industry to third world countries? Why would you assume this?
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-primary-energy?time=2000..latest
Here’s your source. Here’s your total energy consumption. It couldn’t have been that hard to look at our world in data right? How can you be so absolutely wrong about data in plain sight while being confident about it? Do you have an agenda?
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My “attitude” in no way excuses the very offensive remarks on your part, but I guess that’s what happens when you try to defend undefendable claims. You jump from claim to claim, when you are proven wrong, like how you edited out the part where you claim the European trend can be extrapolated to the entire world and you personally attack me with the excuse that I was taken aback by the ignorance on a straightforward Google search.
From what you remember (from where? That’s a good question I guess no one will ever answer us apparently)that does not make up for the overall downwards trend of consumption and emissions. Ok let’s deconstruct that quickly. Consumption has not been decreasing, it has been increasing, proven by the ever rising GDP, which measures exactly that, the total output of goods and services and considering the imports and exports are roughly equal for Europe and that material consumption is coupled to gdp, that’s the consumption.
When I say that Europe has outsourced its heavy industry to third world countries, I wasn’t talking just about “importing goods”. I was talking about their entire production. And the fact that fossil fuel consumption is still ever growing in Europe as well as in the entire West, coupled to the GDP growth is proven in Hickel(2019) “Is green growth possible”, where the domestic material consumption index is proven not to be accounting for the outsourced fossil fuels and materials consumed in third world countries to produce the goods imported, vital for Europe. The actual material footprint(which is the fossil fuel consumption and materials combined) is growing along with the GDP. And when you understand this, you realize it is all an illusion of accounting.
These are your two tragically false claims. For the third paragraph I don’t have much to say besides that third world countries need to increase their GDP to be living comfortably since they are destitute and the first world countries need to degrow like we said. Scientists have been saying this for so many years. There is a space between planetary boundaries and the decent living conditions that all people can and should be living in. The west exceeds the planetary limits(per capita), the economic south is below decent living conditions. That’s what degrowth preaches. It refers to the west, not the world in general.
Unexpected but entirely welcome.
People do forget this all too often.
Cheaper stuff, use more , value less.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox.
Edit: the other comment below mentioning this did not load initially…20 years ago there were 2000000000 fewer people in the world.
too many zeroes I can’t read that number omg
That was my point
Great, now we’re not going to catch the next zero day compression vulnerability. :)
LKML and patch: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=0fc810ae3ae110f9e2fcccce80fc8c8d62f97907
He cites his work as being a variant of a patch submitted by another developer, Josh Poimboeuf. It’s a team effort folks :)
Yeah, one man did hours of profiling and the other made the patch more elegant lol
Kind of like the butcher who got his hands dirty cutting a steak and then a Michelin star chef cooking it for you.
One got his hands bloody. The other made it delectable for you to eat.
Which is more important to the process?
Nobody ever gives the cow any credit…
Like the Linux kernel, the cow is merely a means to an end in this example.
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Sometimes it is pleasant to defederate from an instance, especially if nothing of value is lost.
It sucks that it overshadows the actual news.
On the plus side, this post serves as a wonderful tool to clean up some garbage users/servers.
Ingl, the amount of dislikes made me grunt a little
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More like a shitton of people with no knowledge about who actually worked on this patch erecting a personality cult around their new NATO hero.
Damn, those are not rookie numbers!
The discussion on LKML was so civilised compared to this one.
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I was expecting down votes, but the comment removed? It was a joke. Lol (see? A joke)
I don’t remember what the comment was. I just embed images so people don’t have to go to imgur or tenor websites
I heard the mods are biased here.
Guess the claim of bias is pretty accurate 🤣
It’s all good, I’m used to the oversensitive type.
Have a great weekend.
The Mossad backdoor optimization finally got through.
LMAO
Still not saying it’s any good after he became geopolitical.
Literally required to do it by law of sanctions
He would only escape if he was a presidential candidate or a multi billionaire.
Since he is neither and he works on US soil, then the law came after him. You would cave in, if in similar circumstances.
I already explained my point about it. A lot of companies rebased themselves when political issues occured. The Linux Foundation could easily do that. It’s just racism.
Sanctions against a country/nation that is attacking another sovereign nation are not “racist”. Russia could easily stop their war to start getting rid of the sanctions.
It depends, though. There are western and other countries invading and much worse, but there are no sanctions. It could be racism, interests or both that only a certain country is targeted with sanctions.
There should be sanctions on every country invading. Its not rocket science. It’s crazy to say that russia is being sanctioned for racist reasons. They are literally attacking an European nation. Makes sense that other European countries sanction them, no?
Yes, there should be sanctions against any country doing that and worse. But there aren’t. Why not? I see a lot of downvotes and no explanations. As per Europe, aren’t we talking mostly about US, since Linux is trying to follow their sanctions? Also even Europe is divided about who the enemy is, like pesky Hungary.
One country cozying up to Putin is hardly a reason to call the entire EU divided
Neither Russian nor Western are a race.
You’re right. Racism here should be replaced with hate against a nation.
Then other countries should make sanctions on the US where it masters to them to do so.
Lol sanctions and racism are different. My argument about relocating destroys yours.
So your argument is that Linux foundation should relocate to… where? Sorry that was such a bad argument that I did not even consider it being one.
Why would they relocate? To keep a few Russian maintainers? Because not relocating is “racist”? Not sure what you mean, just trying to guess.
Sorry that was such a bad argument that I did not even consider it being one.
Savage truth.
So your argument is that Linux foundation should relocate to… where?
Somewhere stable and neutral like Switzerland or some island. I’m not a lawyer so can’t say which country is the best for it.
Because not relocating is “racist”?
To some extent, yes.
Switzerland is currently sanctioning Russia. Let me say that again to be clear: moving to Switzerland, the most neutral country in the world, will not prevent you from having to abide by sanctions against Russia.
“Russian” is not a race. And Finland has a history with Russia that isn’t easily forgotten. That is to say, every Finn I’ve spoken to hates Russia for invading Finland… Twice…
Finland isn’t even the only neighbour that hates Russia. At some point one has to wonder why so many of Russia’s neighbours hate, or at the very least don’t feel comfortable with, Russia.
Maybe, just maybe, the reason why everyone is having issues with Russia is Russia’s own damn fault.
Counter argument: The maintainers could “easily” relocate to a country that is not currently conducting an invasion to enlarge its territory.
Ok this one is actually decent.
As I understand it was employer-based ban, not country-based.
Usually uprooting your life and moving to another country implies a job change. At least that’s how I read the comment.
Maintainer of Baikal SoCs not employed by Baikal sounds tough to find.
“A lot of companies” completely left the sphere of influence of basically any country except Russia? Doubt.
I know the company i work for has to take similar steps when the sanctions went into effect, for example. Same as almost everyone.
It’s not racism. They have to follow the LAW.
Do they? They could have just isolated those commits as sanctioned and added a warning. Linux hates Russians as a Finn, so didn’t need much convincing to remove them.
I would be singing a different tune if our allies invading other countries at the moment were also sanctioned, but that’s not the case.
As it stands, let the individuals escape the nation state punishment. They didn’t start this war, and likely don’t support it.
Sanctions have effect precisely because they are a broad tool.
Of course that’s how sanctions work… against nations. Linux isn’t a country, it’s not an American asset. They could have resisted. Linus chose not to.
Wisely.
Rationally speaking, the whole purpose of sanctions is to sanction the whole population of the country in order to get the government of the country to change it’s policies. And when it comes to sanctions, companies and entities doing business with the sanctioned countries are themselves sanctioned. So Linus had no choice but to remove the Russian contributors.
We’re talking about a real situation, not about what would be better.
…it’s not. It is stupid, it stalls mainlining of Baikal, but it is not a racism.
Ok buddy
They are bound by USA sanction law, moving to another NATO country would be same sanctions against Russia
I honestly don’t remember saying anything about NATO.
So your advice is basically “come on, guys, you can resist russian aggression in ways that don’t involve conflict, stop the sanctions and side with Russia pls”?
No. As the instigator of this conflict, Russia can back the fuck down.
At this point I’m sure you’re just trolling. I fully support sanctions against Russia but not against Russian people unless they were officially proven to actively support the war, especially if their actions don’t result in income to Russian Federation in taxes. I think I made it clear.
Also Linus supports US’s terroristic acts and invasions by paying taxes to the country so it’s not necessarily any better.
Sovereignty is the deeper moral right. It is any sovereign individual or group’s right to accept or reject an authority they choose to, and they must deal with the consequences of that (often implicit) choice.
A sovereign entity who is by choice or otherwise subject to a malign power will become a channel for that malign power, regardless of whether or not they intend to. And even when there is no malign intent, there can be fundamental disagreements between sovereign states.
It is very possible the individuals don’t support Russia. But aside from aiding and supporting defection, there’s not much we can do until Russia demonstrates a will to relinquish a hold on Ukraine, who has clearly demonstrated their sovereignty.
This has to be a record for the most downvoted comment on Lemmy, holy moly. This is a huge absolute margin even for reddit.
Well I am the most controversial Lemmy user. That was expected after getting a lot of upvotes.
Huh?
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It certainly looks that way.
HAHAHA THEY REMOVED YOURS TOO, this instance is tankie GARBAGE
Don’t say the big R-word or they’ll remove your post. That’d be POLITICS! Even if it is directly related to what you’re talking about.
Not just politics! They removed our comments for “misinformation”. Very big brother, very cool, definitely no suppression of speech here
LMAO they removed my comment
It certainly looks that way.
Had a stroll through his profile and he’s clearly only here to troll.
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Redditors can’t help themselves but be racist against russians.
Are you lost? This is not reddit. Also, Russia could stop attacking an european nation to gain some respect back. But they won’t. Instead they threaten everyone with nukes daily and cry why nobody likes them.
Asks the fucking developer of lemmy if they’re lost. fucking lmao
I think they are lost of they think a federated platform can only have people who agree with them. When you make a choice to create software that’s federated, it’s not “yours” anymore, and people on the platform who disagree with you are just as much members as you are.
Redditors are garbage, to paraphrase the POTUS.
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alright, chill
You think open source project maintainers should move to different countries because of temporary sanctions? What if they have a wife with a job and kids in school? Or delicate Lego collections that are impossible to pack? Or a side-piece?
Take issue with the sanctions if you want but don’t take issue with people who don’t want to move their family, LEGO collections, and side-pieces.
There are hundreds of Linux developers, including companies like Red Hat, Intel, IBM, Google, and more. You want all these people to up and move to… where? Somewhere. Russia, or a Russian ally presumably but hell if i know. Anyway you want them all to move so a handful of people working for Russian weapons manufacturing companies can keep maintaining pieces of the Linux kernel?
This is obviously a non-serious suggestion.
Move physically? Of course not. If it’s required to register the foundation, they could ask a maintainer from the country to register it. It’s not the cleanest of schemes but it should work. Though if Linus lives in the US now, it can still cause issues because US law system has been proven to not work and they could easily arrest him illegally if they wanted to. However in this case it’s the same as living in Russia. Both countries are terroristic.
You can disagree with the law if you want, but breaking the law (sanctions) and being arrested is a legal arrest.
I have tons of issues with the US legal system, but I don’t pretend like everything I agree with is legal and everything I disagree with is illegal. That would be moronic.
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He is a finn, what do you expect from him? I fully support his position
Really sticking it to those… friendly Russian kernel maintainers. Really doing your part for your individual Two Minutes Hate.
So presumably, as a consistent person that is outrages by invasions and death, you call for the expulsion of all Americans and Usraelis, right?
He is a finn, what do you expect from him?
Continued use of the swastika in his military and a stubborn refusal to acknowledge how many Soviets the Finns starved to death in Leningrad while working with the Third Reich, presumably.
There are plenty of people with swastikas fighting for Russia too. For example Dmitry Valerievich Utkin (Дмитрий Валерьевич Уткин).
Playing the “but they have Nazi supporters in their military” game can be played all day. It’s silly. Every military probably does. It turns out assholes love killing people and Nazis. They’ll probably join the military to get permission to kill people.
I think the comment was about the Finnish Air Force not dropping a literal swastika from their coat of arms until just a few years back. Like you know, the official government sanctioned Air Force, the whole thing and not just a single batallion
Ah, yeah. OK. That isn’t a nazi reference. Nazis chose the swastika because it’s present in many cultures. A key thing is there’s is rotated 45°. If you notice, the one the Finnish Air Force had is the tradition rotation. It’d been in use since 1918, before the Nazis started most of their shit. It had nothing to do with them, and was a prominent symbol in their culture. Calling it a Nazi symbol is a lie, and it’s probably on purpose to be misleading.
Edit: They didn’t say it was a nazi symbol, just a swastika. It was implied to be bad though, which implies it was a Nazi reference.
It is bad enough not to remove it for 70 years after the nazi genocide, but I guess Finns get a free pass on anything due to their extremely unique cultural heritage
It sucks that Nazis get to ruin cultures symbols who had no association with them. However, they prominently used eagles in their imagery, and somehow that isn’t ruined. Should every nation have to stop using eagles or be called Nazis? That’s stupid, right?
Also, they largely did stop using it after WWII, as the article mentions. It was still used it some emblems, flags, and decorations, but not as common. It’s still on the Finnish flag of the president, though it’s got different proportions and you’d look like a complete idiot for implying it’s a nazi symbol there.
The swastika is all over the world. It’s a very basic geometric symbol. It is no surprise it’s appealing. Go play Minecraft or something and make a symmetric design, and odds are you’ll make a swastika. I know playing Factorio I see it appear all the time. Nazis ruined a really cool perfectly innocent shape, and it’s honestly time we should try to recapture it.
Posting a new comment after I looked up the Finnish Air Force, which I’m assuming this is vaguely referencing. It isn’t a Nazi swastika. It is a traditional swastika that has been in use in their culture for a long time. The nazi’s chose the symbol because it’s present in many cultures and they wanted to take it to give them legitimacy. There’s is rotated 45° though. The Finnish Air Force had been using it since 1918, before the Nazis. To imply a negative connection implies it’s a Nazi symbol, which it wasn’t. You’re being purposefully misleading (which isn’t unexpected sadly, and you’ve probably heard this from someone else misleading you), but you aren’t accurate.
Ok western chauvinist. Why doesn’t he ban the genocidal Israelis? It’s because he is full of shit and a racist
Because he’s not making any political, moral, or personal decisions, and only follows the law he is forced to.
When the law forces him to sanction Israel, he will do so, and when the law stops forcing him to sanction Russia, he will stop doing so.
bullshit, his statement was unprofessionally filled with glee at banning russians who he clearly sees as evil as a whole, as he’s banning people who have nothing to do with the war that he has worked with for years just so he can make a libshit stink over it.
I completely agree he was unprofessional about it and should have handled it better. It was his choice in how he communicated it, and I think he failed on that point. Having said that, it was not his choice to do it, and I’m sure he will undue it when it’s legally possible. Hopefully using better judgement on his choice of words then.
It was his choice to be a baby brained racist, how nice
No, not nice at all. I’m answering your question on why he doesn’t ban Israeli contributors, not deliberating on the niceness of anyone in particular.
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Would you say that Linus was “just following orders” of the Finnish government
…because removing somebody’s kernel maintainer priv and the industrialised genocide of people is remotely comparable.
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The principle remains. “My government is bad so I have to also be bad” is not a valid argument, no matter the relative levels of badness. It’s a lazy, morally bankrupt worldview
And Linus didn’t do his racist shit while dragging his feet anyway, he did so gleefully and while repeating chauvinist racist narratives
not all of us are crazy 😭
Not all but a lot
fair lmfao. i’m intentionally here in attempts to out-populate the crazy
His position is that he’s an asshole who won’t stand up to the US lol
not to be a bigoted piece of shit? i guess we can’t expect that from either of you worthless hounds.
if he wasn’t a complete hypocrite he’d ban people from the u.s. and israel as well.
come on now, not all Finns are fascist dipshits, the Punakaarti were great
Would you support him banning AmeriKKKan and Isn’treali developers too, given that their countries’ war crimes are far grander in scale, horror, and devastation than Russia’s?
Plus, they actually have a history of injecting backdoors into everything. Israel’s government is known in the international stage for their espionage and blackmail first and foremost (on the domestic, for their genocide of course).
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So you’re a russophobe as well?
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Yes, all of the people who initially used the software and tested it before you are the people who already moved away from Reddit for ethical reasons, not because of the API catastrophe. We are more likely to be on the older instances, not the Reddit instances. Lemmy.ml users tend to be far more politically aware of how propaganda works and avoidant of US interference. New instance users like to cheerlead the US exactly like reddit does.
Wherever there’s Americans, there’s fascists. Their media is so xenophobic all the time they think not calling for concentration camps for Mexicans is all it takes to not be racist. Can’t believe it’s not just acceptable, but popular to act like Finland has any right to be xenophobic against Russians.
“But the war”, yeah, check again when the winter war was and what exactly Finland wanted to achieve. Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.
The Finnish winter war is harrowing to read about, especially the effects on their history departments. They are all completely devoted to whitewashing Nazis. If you haven’t read Tepora’s Finnish Civil War 1918 History Memory Legacy I recommend finding the time.
And yes it’s ridiculous. Not calling for EVEN MORE concentration camps for Mexicans while still maintaining the current border system impresses them.
Well, when you put it like that, I expect him to join the Israeli death squads “out of pragmatism”
cool
