Falls under the heading of ask me if I give a flying fuck. Sorry, I just can’t identify with Stallman’s rather awkward and impractical form of puritanism.
While I agree with your view (at least when it comes to firmware, especially given that hardware that doesn’t require a firmware upload on boot generally just has the very same proprietary firmware on a built-in memory, so the only difference is that you don’t get to even touch the software running on it), the point of this project is to remove non-libre components from coreboot/libreboot.
It doesn’t differentiate itself from upstream in any other way, so if it fails to do the one thing it was made to do, then that’s in fact a newsworthy fact.
@LeFantome@anamethatisnt If people disagree with me and think authors shouldn’t be able to specify how their work is used, I’m okay with that. We can agree to disagree.
Not in this case, the tests they’re running doesn’t need the vendor blobs in those testing folders.
Generally I agree with Debians changes to include nonfree firmware in the default images and making the “completely free” images the non-default version. I do think maintaining and having completely free distro versions to be a good thing though.
The whole situation is really unnecessary because none of the things that we’re testing really requires those vendor blobs.
We’re just testing the basic vboot and CBFS structures in those images, the file contents are not really relevant as long as they match the signatures.
So I think the easiest option here is to just remove the offending CBFS files from those images / overwrite the offending FMAP sections with zeroes.
That question is kind a rabbit hole and not one I feel confident in going down.
Free as in freedom, not as in free beer.
The real world implications of non-free software is that other’s can’t run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software.
I like having computing alternatives that are free from corporate control and believe that the hardliners like FSF helps us keep those alternatives alive. I realise that those alternatives are in many ways worse and that a lot of hardware today requires the vendor blobs to work. When/If corporations push their control even further I want those alternatives to be around.
@anamethatisnt Yea, so you think the authors are not entitled to specify how their software is used? This is where I have a major disconnect with Richard Stallman.
I believe that both proprietary non-free systems and fully free systems can exist and that having licensing alternatives like GPL, LGPL and MIT gives the developer options for specifying how their software is to be used.
The movement towards using MIT or LGPL instead of the full GPL for libraries thus allowing the developers using the libraries the freedom to choose what license their software should use is one I can stand behind.
If someone builds a FLOSS turbotax competitor and don’t want anyone to use their hard work and fork it into a commercial and proprietary product then I believe there should be a license for that.
If they rather earn money from it and copyrights their code instead that is also their prerogative.
The middle-ground where they create a free turbotax competitor with a license that allows others to fork it into a proprietary software should also be possible - although I personally don’t see the allure.
It’s aesthetically nice. Just when you don’t make compromises, the practical cases will be few.
That’s true even for using OpenBSD as a daily driver. No Stallman there (and they don’t like him), but some principles have to be followed. Thus no Wine and no Linux emulation.
Would like to try using Guix for a long time some day, but it would be an interruption.
Falls under the heading of ask me if I give a flying fuck. Sorry, I just can’t identify with Stallman’s rather awkward and impractical form of puritanism.
While I agree with your view (at least when it comes to firmware, especially given that hardware that doesn’t require a firmware upload on boot generally just has the very same proprietary firmware on a built-in memory, so the only difference is that you don’t get to even touch the software running on it), the point of this project is to remove non-libre components from coreboot/libreboot.
It doesn’t differentiate itself from upstream in any other way, so if it fails to do the one thing it was made to do, then that’s in fact a newsworthy fact.
In this case the binaries with the nonfree software seem be completely unnecessary, so why not keep it free?
https://mail.coreboot.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/thread/6JI7KTJ3QVK6Q5BLNWREX2IBVZP7GCLP/
The political downvoting in this thread is a turn off for me. However, I completely agree with your statement / question.
@LeFantome @anamethatisnt If people disagree with me and think authors shouldn’t be able to specify how their work is used, I’m okay with that. We can agree to disagree.
Personally I’ve upvoted the replies as they keep a relevant and interesting discussion going.
@anamethatisnt It’s only unnecessary if you don’t happen to own hardware that requires the non-free drivers.
Not in this case, the tests they’re running doesn’t need the vendor blobs in those testing folders.
Generally I agree with Debians changes to include nonfree firmware in the default images and making the “completely free” images the non-default version. I do think maintaining and having completely free distro versions to be a good thing though.
https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/374385985
@anamethatisnt What are the real world implications of “non-free” software? I’ve never paid a cent for it, should I?
That question is kind a rabbit hole and not one I feel confident in going down.
Free as in freedom, not as in free beer.
The real world implications of non-free software is that other’s can’t run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software.
I like having computing alternatives that are free from corporate control and believe that the hardliners like FSF helps us keep those alternatives alive. I realise that those alternatives are in many ways worse and that a lot of hardware today requires the vendor blobs to work. When/If corporations push their control even further I want those alternatives to be around.
And you really should pay for winrar. ;-)
@anamethatisnt Yea, so you think the authors are not entitled to specify how their software is used? This is where I have a major disconnect with Richard Stallman.
I believe that both proprietary non-free systems and fully free systems can exist and that having licensing alternatives like GPL, LGPL and MIT gives the developer options for specifying how their software is to be used.
The movement towards using MIT or LGPL instead of the full GPL for libraries thus allowing the developers using the libraries the freedom to choose what license their software should use is one I can stand behind.
If someone builds a FLOSS turbotax competitor and don’t want anyone to use their hard work and fork it into a commercial and proprietary product then I believe there should be a license for that.
If they rather earn money from it and copyrights their code instead that is also their prerogative.
The middle-ground where they create a free turbotax competitor with a license that allows others to fork it into a proprietary software should also be possible - although I personally don’t see the allure.
They are free to use whatever license they want, but I am similarly free to avoid using software under non-FOSS licenses.
@Ledivin and if your wifi doesn’t work as a result, I’m totally ok with that too.
It’s aesthetically nice. Just when you don’t make compromises, the practical cases will be few.
That’s true even for using OpenBSD as a daily driver. No Stallman there (and they don’t like him), but some principles have to be followed. Thus no Wine and no Linux emulation.
Would like to try using Guix for a long time some day, but it would be an interruption.